How Technology Influences Student Thinking - E125

This week, we are chatting about how technology has (or hasn't really) impacted student learning. We're talking about how technology affects the learning and cognitive processes of our students, as well as the pros and cons of new technology and adopting these in the classroom.

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Featured Content
**For detailed show notes, please visit our website at https://edugals.com/125**

• Why Don't Students Like School by Daniel Willingham
• How To Get Students Thinking - E110
• Strategies for Enhancing Memory & Critical Thinking - E113
• Learning That Transfers - E117
• Supporting Different Types of Learners - E121
• Chapter 9 key ideas:
  • Guiding Principle: “Technology changes everything… but not the way you think”
  • Will Chat GPT change everything in the classroom?
  • Digital native vs digital immigrant
  • "Comfort with technology comes from your context, not your generation"
  • Myth of multitasking (or task switching)
  • Impact of music & headphones on independent work
  • Working memory capacity goes downhill after 20s
  • PD for technology is needed with new tools
  • Instructional tech coaches play a big role
  • Train the trainer models
  • Tools that improve learning work to improve cognitive processes
  • Best tools are the simple tools (Screencastify for example)
  • Start with the problems, then select the tech tool to support it
  • Reading comprehension on screens vs paper
  • Digital textbooks
  • Memorization vs Googling it
  • Note-taking - digital vs paper
  • Time spent on devices
  • Parenting with devices (tech addiction)
  • Classroom implications - equity (avoid the digital divide), questions to consider when adopting tech, assistive technology, offer practice in sustained attention

Transcript

Rachel: 0:41

In this episode, we are going to talk about technology and how it hasn't really changed our classrooms very much.

Katie: 0:49

We're going to talk about how technology affects the learning and cognitive processes of our students. And the pros and cons of new technology and adopting these in the classroom.

Rachel: 1:00

Let's get started. This week Katie and I are gonna be chatting a bit about technology and how it fits with the book study we've been doing. Why don't students like School by Daniel Willingham?

Katie: 1:17

Yeah, so this one is kind of right up our alley. So we're gonna dedicate the whole episode to this one chapter because it really does kind of resonate with what we've been seeing in education and this trend towards technology use, et cetera, and also the impact on our students.

Rachel: 1:33

and honestly, like everything that we have experienced in our careers in education to.

Katie: 1:39

Yes. Like this is essentially the reality of education throughout our careers. And so I found it very fascinating and kind of, it made me feel a little bit better about my reaction to some of this stuff because I've been like, oh, it's not just me.

Rachel: 1:55

It was nice to see it in black and white for sure.

Katie: 1:58

Yes. so he opens up, so the title of the chapter is How Can I know Whether New Technology will Improve Student Learning? And isn't that the question we're always asking? And I really like the guiding principle. Technology changes everything, but not the way you think. I think in many ways we look at technology as the answer to so much, but we're not really thinking about the processes that we use when we're thinking and learning and, and how technology might impact those processes.

Rachel: 2:27

Yeah, lot. Lots of people say, you know, technology has changed everything. Like think about even chat G P T right now and what everyone is saying about it. It's. It's going to change the landscape of education, right? And how we do things and what the classroom is, and there's a lot of buzz and excitement and nervousness and fearfulness even of this new technology. But I think what's important to keep in mind, it's like, yes, we have this new technology, but that doesn't change how our brains work and how our minds think and, and the way that we process information.

Katie: 3:05

Yeah, like we still need to consider those things and if we can't process information in such a way to be able to use the tools, well then we're not really doing ourselves any favors. So when we're approaching tools, we need to think about the thinking processes and the learning processes that are involved. So really, technology hasn't really changed too much

Rachel: 3:23

No it hasn't. And even going forward, like chat G P T, yes, it, it's new, but how we use it in the classroom and how we leverage that technology is going to depend on changes we see. Just by having this technology, it's not gonna change anything.

Katie: 3:40

So Daniel Willingham goes on to kind of talk about that idea that came out about like the digital native versus the digital immigrant and how adults that never had the technology, they're kind of the eight ball in many ways and trying to learn it. Whereas those who grow up immersed in technology tend to be the ones who know the ins and outs of it. And his take was really fascinating cuz he talks about how that's not actually the case. Like we know what we know because we use certain tools or programs constantly, but just cuz youth grow up being immersed with technology doesn't actually mean they understand the technology.

Rachel: 4:17

Yeah, totally. They're very good at. The social apps and the things, you know, text messaging, the things they do day to day, but that doesn't mean, and doesn't translate to saying be being like really good at creating a slide deck in Google Slides.

Katie: 4:35

Or like the programming aspect of things. Just, just because they're raised with tech doesn't mean they know all of that. They still have to learn those things. So we tend to make a lot of assumptions as educators and as parents about how much our, our students really do understand and know how to use.

Rachel: 4:53

I really enjoyed this quote from this section. It says, comfort with technology comes from your context, not your generation, and just wow, like that really resonated with me.

Katie: 5:03

Yes, because it really is the time and effort you put into learning it. Like you and I, you know, we spent a lot of time learning technology when it was first kind of coming into education and becoming this big thing. But if you didn't spend that time to get to know how to use it and how to, how to kind of take advantage of some of the features, you're not going to know how to use it at all. Young, old, et cetera.

Rachel: 5:25

Another sort of big thing that he talks about in this section is the myth of multitasking.

Katie: 5:31

Oh, I have a few things to say, but go on, keep explaining, and then let's talk about it.

Rachel: 5:36

So really, you know, there, there's this myth that people are very good at being able to do so many things at once, and that is so not true. Really multitasking is not actual multitasking. It's tasks switching and you're, you're switching quickly between tasks, but you're never able to focus on, on two different things at the exact same time.

Katie: 6:00

And so he goes on to explain kind of some of the differences. So if you're watching a TV show that you know really well as like a way to kind of focus on doing something else, you're not. Really able to kind of make that focus more effective because you're still listening to that TV show and, and interrupting your focus and your attention. But then he does talk about music and how mixed some of the data is. And this is where, like for me, I'm like, I, I actually have a few things to say about that. And I, and I wonder why I notice the things I notice about myself. So when I'm doing research or work or marking whatever, I tend to listen to music. If I'm doing research, it's instrumental music, so there's no words to distract me or anything because I find I can't focus if there are words. But I do focus better and I don't know if it's because I'm blocking out the conversations of my family around me. Sorry, family, if you're listening. so I don't know if it's because I'm using that. As a way to not get distracted by other things going on, or if it's the music itself that helps me to focus.

Rachel: 7:06

I often listen to music too, so when I'm marking, like especially during that exam period where I'm trying to get summatives and final exams marked and my grades done because it's such a time crunch, I have to listen to music and. Sometimes I'll listen to stuff with lyrics, but it's usually songs that I know really, really well or the last sort of exam block. I did pick more instrumental music as well, and I found like that was, that was really good. So I might continue doing that instead. But I agree with you. I think it is partly blocking out the rest of the noise around you. It just helps you focus on. Maybe it's just the one noise versus the, the many noises that that helps provide that focus. I don't know.

Katie: 7:52

and I should add, I have to be wearing headphones. I can't just have music playing. And so maybe it really is a blocking out thing because if I'm marking at school, then there are so many people in my workroom or people going in and out, or people might be coming by to ask for help on something. And so by putting my headphones in, it is like the universal declaration of Please do not disturb. And. And then I'm able to actually focus and get my stuff done. So I do wonder if it is that blocking out of all of the external noises.

Rachel: 8:24

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. It, it does help to put the headphones on though, at, at when you're in your workroom because, and I've noticed like if I just have my AirPods in, I get interrupted way more than if I have like my giant over the ear noise canceling headphones on, then people like I think really know you mean business and then they don't bother you.

Katie: 8:45

But yeah, so that, that was interesting to me. Cause I was like, oh, he's saying music isn't necessarily, but here's my experiences and why. But the more I think about it, the more I, I think it makes sense. I think, yeah.

Rachel: 8:56

Now he does make some links to working memory capacity, and people that have larger working memory capacities are. A little bit better at multitasking, but what's really kind of, I don't know, terrifying or makes me feel awful is that he says that our working memory capacity peaks in our early twenties and declines thereafter. So like Katie and I are screwed.

Katie: 9:21

Yes, yes we are. I did read that and I was like, darn it. Do I wanna highlight this? Not really, but I feel like I need to cause I'm not gonna remember. Yeah, I feel that. You know, I think that's, I don't know. I'd like to say it's normal, but I don't like the sound of it. I wish that it peaked, you know, mid forties. That would be great.

Rachel: 9:41

Yeah, that would be fantastic. Now in, in terms of technology itself there was a really interesting sort of discussion about introducing technology into the classroom. And for example, I remember when I first started at my school, of the main goals was to get a smart board into every single classroom.

Katie: 10:04

Yeah, I remember that. And I also remember thinking, but everybody's just using them as projectors well, so part of it, I think it's, it's a bit of a. Many different things that are kind of making it a difficult one here for me. We didn't actually receive training on how to use them and while I would love to say I have all the time in the world to be able to learn how to use a new tool plus put in the time to be able to create the lessons that use that tool, my reality is very different cuz it's, it's just not something that I have the time to be able to do independently. Whereas if I could attend some sessions to get to know how to use it and create these lessons that, you know, use it properly, then sure. I, I can start to do that.

Rachel: 10:48

And I. Think that's the reality for every teacher. Like that's not just your reality or just my reality. That is, I think we're speaking to the whole audience here when we say that is the reality is that you'll get introduced to this new tool. They'll be like, Hey, we're putting a smartboard in your classroom, and you're like, you get really excited about it, right? Because it's a new shiny tool, but without the PD to go along with it. And the time and space to be able to create resources to maximize its use. It's not going to do anything in your classroom. It's not going to improve student learning.

Katie: 11:22

No, or the other trend I find is you train the initial teachers, but then you don't continue training for teachers who are coming into the building or new to the board, et cetera. And so then you have a few teachers who know how to use it, and everybody else is like, well, what do we do? So we just use it as a projector and be done with it, because that's all we know how to do.

Rachel: 11:43

I don't wanna go to negative Nancy here, but I do have one thing to say about this is that I think that is an issue just in terms of our education system where we're at, the, the whole model with, at least in our board, whenever we get something new, is to. Do like a train the trainer kind of model where you train a select few of, of the staff members in each of the schools and it, it's always the same people and then it's expected that they then go out and train the rest of the people. So that workload is always put onto, you know, one or two people's shoulders. And it's not, it's really not fair. And I think part of the reason why it's done this way is because there's just no instructional technology coaches in our system. And I think that's where, you know, schools in the states do so much better is that they have dedicated people for that, that that is their job, right, is to. Not only introduce the technology, but also help people integrate it into their classroom. Sorry, I'll stop ranting now.

Katie: 12:48

No, no, you're right. And I wonder, you know, I wonder if other boards in our area have like a similar kind of issue or challenge or if that tends to be. The focus is train the trainer. And, and, but like when you think about it, if I'm training a science teacher how to use a tool, do they have the same kind of, well, they understand how a language teacher or a math teacher or a history teacher can use the tool in the same way. I don't know. Like I, I wish it was a, a larger group of people in a building. And then I wish more time was given to then be able to share that learning with other staff.

Rachel: 13:22

that's, it's part of the reason why I've stepped away from being that go-to person for technology in my building is because I'm, I'm actually really frustrated with the system.

Katie: 13:32

Yeah, and it's hard to be that go-to person at all times because you have your own job to do as well.

Rachel: 13:38

Yeah. It, it burns you out very, very quickly.

Katie: 13:41

Mm-hmm.

Rachel: 13:42

So some of the discussion in that sort of section, like besides the fact that there's not enough or there's a lack of professional development, he also talks about that there are some technology tools that do improve some aspects of learning, but those are the ones that um, you have to basically select really carefully. So you're looking for ones that are. Trying to improve cognitive processes.

Katie: 14:08

And he also mentions it might have a positive impact on one process, but you still have to pay attention and be aware of how that's going to impact the other cognitive processes. So no matter what best intentions are not, there's always going to be positive and or negative impacts on the processes of thinking and learning.

Rachel: 14:29

And keeping it simple, like some of the, the best tools that I've seen have a big impact are the simple ones, not the things with all the bells and whistles. So going back to Screencastify, like that is just a Screencasting app, but. The things you can do with it and how much you can, incorporate it into your classroom and get students showing their thinking. And you know, that, that one I think has a, does have a big impact on student learning.

Katie: 14:58

Yeah. And so it's like these simple tools that can be used for a variety of different purposes that I find, well, first of all, they're the easiest for students and teachers to learn. And then teachers can, can then kind of look at it and say, what are my goals here? How can I benefit student learning and kind of make it work in my classroom? Like I feel like we're doing it kind of backwards when we start with a tool. I think we need to look at the processes and go backwards to find the tool that fits.

Rachel: 15:23

yeah, we're always doing it backwards. If we're starting with the tool first and then going, Hmm, how can we use this tool in the classroom? need to start with the problems. Then brainstorm solutions, and if a technology tool fits that solution, then you go ahead and use it.

Katie: 15:41

yes. Whereas oftentimes, We're kind of set. We're kind of told, oh, hey, here are some tools that you could use. And then it's like, okay, that's great. How can we use these? It doesn't really fit. It doesn't. I find that, I don't know. I wish the process were different.

Rachel: 15:56

And I know I keep coming back to chat G P T, but I feel like that's what's happening right now in that space. This is like, here's this cool, shiny new tool. Now how do we use it in the classroom?

Katie: 16:07

I think we need to, we need to kind of take a step back and say why, like, is there, like what, how, what skills, what processes benefit from the use of this tool?

Rachel: 16:16

Now I just have my grade nine students. We've just started our podcasting project for this semester, and so they're creating podcasts with a theme around the UN sustainable development goals and trying to link it back to our biology unit, our ecology, you know, ecosystem, sustainability, all that good stuff, and. I had a conversation with them the other day and they're like, okay, well how do I brainstorm what topics I wanna do and then what I wanna, you know, come up with this? And I'm like, Hey, if you wanna use chat G B T to brainstorm, that is okay. You can brainstorm ideas. You can brainstorm talking points. You can, you can use that tool, but then, you know, You're not taking that verbatim. You're using that as a brainstorming tool to then come up with what you are going to say in your podcast episode. And I think something like that, like that is an acceptable use of the tool and it's a good use of the tool.

Katie: 17:11

Yes, totally. Willingham goes on to talk about digital texts. And this one, I think, I feel this one.

Rachel: 17:19

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Katie: 17:21

He talks about how comprehension when reading on a screen is actually worse than comprehension when reading paper. And this kind of made me feel good. Cause I'm, I'm that person who's constantly printing all of my articles from my masters so I can like, read on paper and, you know, highlight work with the text a bit and it. Helps me way more than reading a computer screen where I don't remember anything. And so this to me was really kind of reassuring that there's nothing wrong with me and that I'm actually normal in that respect.

Rachel: 17:51

Yeah, it's interesting. I do like for very academic texts. I do like having it printed too and reading it on paper. Now as I get older, my eyesight gets worse. I love my Kobo. And I will do all of my reading, like most of my reading on that. Or I'll bring it into, say, good notes on my iPad and really zoom it and blow it up. But it's because I'm hitting that barrier of just not being able to read it very well with at least without reading glasses. And sometimes I don't have mine around. But yeah. The comprehension I know is still a little bit lower, but I think for that recreational type of reading, perfectly acceptable. Even though I read like a ton of non-fiction books, but those academic texts, I still need paper.

Katie: 18:37

I do have an e-reader when I'm reading for fun, but that's because I'm not trying to read to learn. I'm just reading for entertainment. And so if I don't pick up on a little detail, I don't really care as much because it's just reading for fun. But like I know a lot of. Places are leaning towards, you know, digital textbooks. And if I was in university at a time when digital textbooks were a thing, I would not have done very well because I just don't function like that.

Rachel: 19:05

Yeah, I feel like digital textbooks are just clunky anyway.

Katie: 19:08

Well, that too, but like it's crazy how common they are.

Rachel: 19:11

He also talks a bit about, uh, why we should memorize anything when we can just Google it. And I love this question, and I love this section because that is a big question that pops up in education. But one of, one of the, sort of the key things is that to remember is that your brain is faster than Google. And so if you're stopping to Google something, you're really interrupting your workflow. It's pretty disruptive, versus just knowing something you know, takes a split second and then you can just keep going.

Katie: 19:43

And it also has to do with context. Like your brain can understand the different contexts based on a sentence, but. Google can't, and so it's going to answer your question and it's gonna be riddled with ads and everything else, and so your brain can actually process that better and think about the different contexts of a sentence, whereas Google can't,

Rachel: 20:03

Yeah. Like if, if you put the wrong search term in there, it's gonna populate a whole bunch of stuff and then it's gonna be like the wrong context. So, for example like. The breed of dog that, uh, we have as a Britney. And so if you put Britney in, you get Britney Spears,

Katie: 20:17

Uhhuh?

Rachel: 20:19

which is not what I'm looking for.

Katie: 20:21

No, no, not at all. So he, he goes on to talk a little bit about taking notes on a laptop. I'm mixed here mostly because I type really quickly and I write very slowly. And so for me, sometimes taking notes on a laptop, Is really effective. But then I also have to remember that I'm not as tempted by social media and all the rest when I am taking notes as my students are. And so there is kind of that. reminder that teens are very immersed in the social world and very tempted by technology as a way to, you know, keep in touch and constantly be communicating with their peers. And so there is, I understand why students perhaps won't benefit as much from typed notes.

Rachel: 21:03

I agreed with this whole section and. I usually give my students a choice really, in terms of whether they're taking notes on their laptop or whether they want a handout so that they could write their notes, you know, sort of like a guided note. I know it's better to do it handwritten, and most of the time in, especially in chem, senior chemistry, like a lot of things do need to be handwritten. It's really hard, hard to type those notes.

Katie: 21:27

Yeah.

Rachel: 21:27

Otherwise, but yeah, there, there's lots of research out there on in terms of handwritten notes are better for so many reasons.

Katie: 21:35

No, a hundred percent. I remember more when I do handwritten notes, but if it's like a lecture, I can type faster. And so for me, I get more that I can then review.

Rachel: 21:43

But I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of like why students are so addicted to their technology and why they're so frantic about their phones and just on them all the time is because they are very, very social.

Katie: 21:56

And so there was an interesting section that actually talks about the role of parents a little bit. And so I'm gonna start by sharing this dance about how many hours students are using their devices. And so for eight to 12 year olds, They're just under five hours per day based on Ingham's notes. And for 13 to 18 year olds, just a bit over seven hours per day on devices. And that was shocking to me. I do have to admit, because I'm like, you know, kids are sleeping too. And so that's a big chunk of our waking hours where, students are on their devices and eight. That to me is crazy. Like, that seems really young. But he goes on to share how when children are young parents give a device as like a instant gratification for, for the parents to then have a child who's quiet and paying attention to something else and not being disruptive. so we've actually kind of created these tech addicted individuals who use that as kind of that. Attention focus, like they like to, like it's instant gratification, playing games, et cetera, on these devices.

Rachel: 23:04

I know that's why we've, we've limited our son quite a bit in terms of technology, but he's getting to that age now. And we caught, just caught him doing this this morning. Like he's sneaking downstairs at five 30 in the morning just so he can watch some YouTube videos, so. it's not it's not good. Right.

Katie: 23:22

No, my daughter, we caught her in her. So my daughter is turning 11 and we just got her a Chromebook I think within the last year. And so prior, like my kids don't have phones or iPads or anything else. And we don't have a family computer, so it's not like they've been doing that stuff. We're, we're weird with technology mostly cuz I'm afraid of that addiction and that. Kind of dependence on it. But, um, we did catch her, I think it was like nine o'clock at night where I was just bringing something into her room and I knew she was supposed to be sleeping, so I was trying to be quiet I walk in and there's a screen that's on and I'm like, what is happening? And so then like, it, it became the conversation of no screens aren't in the bedroom at night, let's take it out. Cuz you don't need that temptation. You need to sleep,

Rachel: 24:04

Yeah, so we, we have been sort of on and off with that too. We've been. Just kind of leaving it downstairs in the kitchen for the last little while to charge overnight, and now that he's sneaking down there, it's like that's, it's no longer staying there and staying in one of, like in our bedroom or somewhere where he can't find it because we too are worried about that technology addiction and I'm already seeing it.

Katie: 24:28

Oh yeah, definitely. Like when my kids do get their tech, like they're focused on that tech and there's nothing else they can pay attention to, which I think is partially because we do not kind of give more tech time, but pros and cons. is hard.

Rachel: 24:43

Totally hard. All right, Let's talk about some of the classroom implications. So I think some of the big ones are, are pretty common sense, like ensuring equity, making sure that if you're using technology in the classroom, that you're avoiding homework, for example, that requires in internet access. Or you're making sure that there's no digital divide. So that. All students, if you want them to do something, technology outside of the classroom that they all have access to, the equipment they need and the internet access that they need.

Katie: 25:15

The one I liked is also adoption of tech products. He actually shares a list of, you know, four different questions he goes through when considering whether to adopt a new technology. You know, I think we'll put it in the show notes, the, the four different questions he asks. But I think it's important that we are more critical, and I think that kind of raises that idea of don't just adopt, adopt tech for the sake of adopting tech. It's important to kind of go through some steps to make sure it's actually gonna benefit the students and their learning well as be a useful tool for the classroom.

Rachel: 25:45

And also to, as you're sort of considering those technology tools to focus on, some students need that technology in terms of disabilities that they may have. So finding those technology tools to support those students is also really important. Again, it creates that equity in the classroom.

Katie: 26:04

the one more for me is offer practice and sustained attention because technology tends to make it difficult to have that sustained attention. And so we need to make sure we're still teaching our students how to pay attention to things and how to want to pay attention to things because if we don't, going to be more challenging for them as they continue learning.

Rachel: 26:24

Yeah. And you can do things like adopting. Kind of a rhythm. So maybe you're working for 25 minutes and then you get a minute or two on your technology, and then continue with that rhythm. I know, Katie, you've done that in your classroom before?

Katie: 26:36

was fabulous. And I don't know, I think I stopped because covid happened, and then I never really got into the habit of it. But now that we're talking about it, I'm, I'm starting to think that might be a good idea again, because many of my students are very distracted.

Rachel: 26:48

Or even just talking about the ways that you use technology and how you, control the use of like, social media apps and, and your time and things like that. So, for example, I often share with my students that I turn off most of my notifications on my phone because I wanna control when I go on those apps, not have the apps control me.

Katie: 27:08

Yep. That's key.

Rachel: 27:09

And I've had a few students who have adopted that after I've shared that, so that's pretty cool.

Katie: 27:13

That's awesome. That's, that's a good lesson to learn.

Rachel: 27:15

So we'll wrap up our conversation here today, and we'll include any of the links or resources we talked about here today in our show notes. You can access our show notes for this episode@edugals.com slash 1 25. That's edu G A l s.com/ 1 25.

Katie: 27:33

And if you like what you heard today, then feel free to share it with a colleague or a friend. And don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so that you don't miss out on any future content.

Rachel: 27:42

And as always, we'd love to hear from you. So what are your thoughts on technology? How do you use technology in the classroom? Have you ever seen instances where technology hasn't really made a difference? We'd love to hear your thoughts. So you can go onto our flip at edu gals.com/flipgrid and leave us a video message there. Or you can go onto our website@edugals.com and leave us a written reply.

Katie: 28:06

Thanks for listening and see you next week.