From The Archives: Getting Buy In For UnGrading - E097

This week, we are talking all about how to build buy-in for ungrading in your school community. We'll discuss ungrading buy-in strategies for various different stakeholders such as teachers, admin, parents, and most importantly, students. Let's start talking about ungrading!

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Featured Content
**For detailed show notes, please visit our website at https://edugals.com/97**
Teachers/Admin:

• Start with conversations about grading and grading practices
• Why aren't traditional grading practices working? 
• Leverage opportunities informally in your workroom, more formally in department meetings
• Keep in mind - slow and deliberate changes towards ungrading (it's a spectrum)
• Many ways to ungrade (mastery, standards-based, feedback, etc)
• Focus on the feedback and learning over grades
• Look at printouts of marks for students, rubrics we're using (single point vs 4-level), success criteria, moderated marking
• Try to find common ground, team dynamics matter
• Rethinking Letter Grades - Conversation Cards
• Grades are very personal - Grading for Equity by Joe Feldman
• Share your own vulnerability
• Open your classroom space, share your ungrading practices
• Honour professional judgement
• Invite colleagues and admin into your classroom
• Keep your admin in the loop - let them know what you are doing with ungrading and be prepared with a plan

Parents:

• Parents are allies - need transparency, clear communication of grading practices
• Pitch/justify your why of ungrading - send out a newsletter early in the school year
• Mastery can start a strong parent-teacher relationship
• Start an FAQ document to share with parents, teachers, admin, etc - post on website, LMS, etc

Students:

• This is the trickiest group to build buy-in!
• Consider the language you use to talk about grading, assessment, and feedback
• Expect pushback - this takes a bit of time to learn
• Involve students in the grading practices
• Start with having a conversation in general about grading
• Have them track their progress with a portfolio
• Build in reflection opportunities
• Know that emotions can be high - some students might feel anxiety and stress

Transcript

Rachel: 0:00

I'm Kristi Hemmingway, host of Ed Curation, a part of the Education Podcast Network. Just like the show you're listening to now, shows on the network are individually owned and opinions expressed, may not reflect others. Find other interesting education podcasts@edupodcastnetwork.com. Welcome to the edu gals podcast. We are your co-host, Rachel Johnson

Katie: 0:31

and Katie Atwell. We are here to bring you tips and tricks to help you integrate technology into your classroom.

Rachel: 0:40

In this episode, we are talking all about how to get buy-in from various stakeholders as you are planning for un grading in your classroom.

Katie: 0:51

We will talk about teachers, administration, parents, and most importantly students. And how we can make this work. Let's get started.

Rachel: 1:07

This week, Katie and I thought, you know, we're, we're getting ready for a new school year and so we thought we would talk a little bit about how to get buy-in from various different stakeholders when you're planning for un grading because we are both. Planning for at least some form of un grading in our classrooms. Yeah, it

Katie: 1:29

is. It's, it's a very challenging question because there's Ontario grading and the requirements, we, we feel like we're kind of boxed in, and so it kind of brings these questions to the front and it makes teachers hesitant. And it makes parents hesitant to hear it. And so we thought, why not chat about it and kind of problem solve through some of the issues that we're experiencing or potentially will experience and kind of go from

Rachel: 1:54

there. So I guess maybe we start with like even how to even just. Get started, like starting the conversation with your colleagues, with your admin, and with different staff in your school, because I think that's kind of where it does need to start is it needs to start with those conversations around grading and around our practices about. Why they aren't necessarily the best in the most effective ways to come up with grades for our students.

Katie: 2:27

Yeah. And I think that this is kind of where these, these movements or these kind of pushes towards un grading happen naturally, particularly with colleagues. Like when, when you're talking in a workroom about, you know, oh, so and so, you know, this is their writing. Look how terrible it's, but they're not even reading my feedback. And yet we put a number on that. And so I think it's one of those, you know, we have these conversations so often that I think now people are starting to realize the more we talk about it, well why are we marking it then? Like, why aren't we giving chances? Yeah, so these conversations that are happening, I feel like these are just kind of fuel to the fire as to why our traditional grading practices aren't working. Like it's tar, it's time to start rethinking it and you know, how can we make the feedback more meaningful and purposeful and, and a way for students to actually. Improve and want to improve, like where's the motivation?

Rachel: 3:25

Yeah, I think, like you said, leveraging those opportunities. Whenever you hear that comment in your workroom and it's something about how, you know, marking sucks or. How students are not looking at feedback or like, there's so many different complaints that you hear about greeting when you're sitting in a, in a workroom with other teachers. Like those are kind of the best places to just have that natural kind of organic conversation about grading and about our practices.

Katie: 4:00

Yeah, and, and. Just as a disclaimer, like I don't think un grading is an all or nothing approach. I, I really do think that there's room for, um, you know, slow but deliberate changes to help support the learning of our students. I don't think it has to go completely un grading. I do really think there's, there's a spectrum and I think it's all about, you know, finding where you are, what is and isn't working in your classroom, and then moving along that spectrum to further improve. Student achievement.

Rachel: 4:29

Yeah, totally. And un grading is, it's more, I think, more of a mindset than it is about a specific certain practice that you are doing because there are so many ways to un grade. So it could look like doing something that's mastery based grading. You know that is considered a form of un grading or doing standards-based grading or looking at competencies and doing that sort of thing all the way to the other end of the spectrum where it is literally all just feedback conversations with students and collaborating on coming up with a grade when you need to there. There's such a huge spectrum of what is considered to be un grading, and so it's really. I guess it's really about that approach of how can we focus more on the learning and the feedback than about the grade itself.

Katie: 5:27

I, and that's, that's kind of where I see us moving, right? So it's, you know, we don't have to go all the way to that end of the spectrum where it's like no assigned grain until the end. But I do think it's worth, you know, rethinking and looking at what we do. Um, because I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of wiggle room that we have. Even within a very traditional education system, you do have quite a bit of autonomy and, and, and wiggle room to kind of make some of these changes.

Rachel: 5:56

So kind of going along that line as well. Then, if, especially when you're in a leadership position, like both Katie and I are leveraging some of that time you have with your departments as well, so department meetings, you know, are. Our board tells us that we should be having one every month. Usually they're what? Every third Monday or something like that of the month. And you know, kind of assigning a little bit of that time for those department meetings to have some of those discussions around assessment and evaluation I think is also a nice place in a natural place for those conversations to come up. So it could even be something simple as just looking at the a hundred point scale and. Why it's, it's so skewed towards failure and what happens when a student gets a zero and how much effort it takes, right. To come back from that zero. Yeah, no, that's, that's a tough one. Yeah. And so it could even look like just taking a look at printouts of our mark books and. You know, looking at students and looking at really kind of looking at the data and, and asking ourselves like, are we setting our students up for success? And it

Katie: 7:09

almost comes down to, let's look at the rubrics we're using and let's talk about, you know, what they're telling students. I've stopped using a a four level rubric because I would much rather have success criteria. Um, and then give students feedback based on each of those different success criteria as to how they're, they're approaching kind of that, that checklist or goal in their work. And, and I think that has become way more helpful. I. Because I have students where if I say, oh, you're not yet there, and then I put a comment, it actually starts a conversation. Whereas if I have my four level rubric, they're like, okay, there's my mark, whatever. I'm gonna put this in the recycling bin now.

Rachel: 7:55

It's kind of funny that you say that'cause I was very much a su success criteria kind of person and steering away from rubrics and I'm, I'm actually skewing the other way in terms of my thinking. So we talked about this in, in a couple of episodes ago, but creating these mastery rubrics that are just based on a three point scale, but give a description of what that skill looks like at each of those levels. So that's sort of where I've been going with my journey. I don't know how well that's going to work though, but it's something that, you know, I'm really, really proud that our team has come up with agreed with, you know, it's, it's hard to sometimes be able to agree on something that everybody is okay with.

Katie: 8:41

No, it is. And, and we all kind of. Teach differently and mark differently and approach things differently so it, so it is hard to find a single system that will work for everybody. But if you can, it's worth it, right? Like if you can find, you know that that core team of teachers that really jive well and can share their ideas and create something together, it really does change

Rachel: 9:05

the dynamic. Now, I also came across this resource in a book that I read recently. It's called Rethinking Letter Grades. And you know, it, it was okay. It was, it's a super, super short read, so I wouldn't. I like just get, um, electronic copy of it if you can. But, um, at the very back they had a set of conversation cards, which I thought was really neat. So there are just a bunch of different prompts to get you talking and discussing. Areas of grading and what that looks like. So for example, there's one that says, what's an A? In BC it's 86 to a hundred. In Ontario it's 80 to a hundred. In Maine it's 90 to a hundred. So what is an A? Is it an 80, an 86, a 90? Like what is it? And I, I love these conversation cards and I actually wanna kind of cut them out, maybe use them in some of our. Department time next year, because they do kind of get you really thinking about your, your approach and your practices. Yeah,

Katie: 10:09

I, I really don't like level, like, like those letter grades rather. Um, I find them very deceiving, but, um, I think it's, it's worth, you know, have the conversations with your colleagues. You'd be surprised. Everybody struggles with marking. Even marking together, like going over an assignment in your course teams and marking them together and, you know, figuring out, you know, what do you look for versus what do I look for, et cetera. Um, and how can we make the feedback meaningful and how can we make sure that we are in line with one another?

Rachel: 10:45

One point that I kind of wanna pick up on, That that you sort of mentioned there is that everybody does have that different approach to grading and that different sort of thinking around grading. And that reminds me of part of the grading for equity book by Joe Feldman, where he kind of talks about. How grading is so personal to teachers and one of the reasons why it's so tricky to have those conversations around grading and why it's hard to change mindsets there is because grading is one of those places in teaching where we still have a lot of autonomy. Yeah, no, it's true. We don't have an awful lot of autonomy in, in many other sort of aspects of teaching, but grading is something that you can. You, you, you have a lot of autonomy over.

Katie: 11:36

No, and, and it's also, I find that, uh, many of us and and myself included, become really defensive around grading or how we are marking assignments or giving feedback, assessing, et cetera. Um, because it, it does feel more personal, like, like to me, I feel like the way I assess is like a personal conversation between me and students. And so it, it, even for me, it's hard for me to let somebody in on that conversation to tell me that I'm not doing it right or that they don't agree. It, it is a very deeply personal process, right? Like marking and assessing. It really is. And I

Rachel: 12:14

think so then having that understanding of how personal it is for every single person as you're trying to create, buy-in for something that, you know, many people may not agree with. It's, it's just good having that sort of understanding and knowing that it is personal and that it can feel like a personal attack on your professional judgment. Right, because that's kind of where, where it comes down to is, is a lot of assessment is professional judgment. And like I said, it's that one area that you still are allowed to exercise a lot of your professional judgment. A lot of other things in education are already decided for us. So I don't know, just. Just having that sort of frame of mind and that frame of reference as you're trying to build that buy-in is just so, so important. Yeah, and you can share

Katie: 13:06

that vulnerability with your team. I actually feel like by admitting how vulnerable that makes you feel to have other people kind of put you under a microscope and then look at your, your assessment practices. Others are feeling the same way, but nobody wants to admit that. They don't feel comfortable with it, like who does, right? So, but admitting it, I think is one of the first steps. So if you are like a department head or a leader in a course team, like be very frank, be honest with one another, because that's how you're gonna build those relationships and. And really make some of the meaningful work happen

Rachel: 13:41

naturally. I kind of giggle a little bit because yeah, I, I'm super, super vulnerable when I have those conversations with my team. So as we're kind of talking about what this might look like in Great Nine Science for next year. I basically tell them, you know, here's the idea. I don't know if this is gonna work great. Like, let's try it. Know that as we go through it, there will be growing pains and that's okay. We'll improve it as we go and we'll learn as we go. And so, sort of like establishing that culture of. It's okay if it's not perfect. And so

Katie: 14:20

in terms of getting some buy-in, like I know we've, we've talked about some of these conversations. I would say, you know, open your classroom space show, show your colleagues how you mark or un grade, whatever it is that however it is that you're moving along that continuum. But, but make it something that they can see and ask questions about. Um, and don't, not everybody has to do everything all at once. And I think there is this. You know, we do have to let go of it and, and remember that professional judgment is important and that we all have that, right? So as a teacher, at the end of the day, it is up to you, but it's, it's moving forward as a team. And, and respecting where people are at and how we can move everybody forward from that point. Yeah,

Rachel: 15:07

I love that. And that's, that's sort of one of my sort of thinkings for next year is sharing that process of, as we kind of go and progress with this grade nine course, sharing it with the rest of the department so they can kind of learn along in our journey as well and see what we're doing and, you know, get a feel for. What it is without having to fully commit to doing anything UN grading. Like I don't, I have no expectations of everybody else doing a mastery based approach in their courses. I just, I kind of wanna expose them to it and help them learn a little bit and then see. You know how it's going to benefit students and, and so invite

Katie: 15:50

people into your classroom. I remember the first time I had somebody come to my classroom and it was, I was so scared it, it honestly made me feel so vulnerable again. Like it's, it's hard to put yourself out there and let people watch you and, and see what you do because you're always afraid of criticism. But it's a good conversation. It's a good way to kind of, you know, get feedback as to what people see and, and what they think should change or, or even how, you know, opening that conversation up to say how they can start to change if they want to take on whatever it is that you're doing in your classroom, but invite people in. It does amazing things.

Rachel: 16:29

I think that also then ties in nicely to getting buy-in from your administrators. Because you can invite your administrators in as well. I think that is one thing. You know, they are super busy and they might not be able to come in, but if they can then be, for them to be able to see what you're putting into practice is gonna really help them be able to have your back. If, for example, parents are asking a lot of questions or. Are concerns about some of the practices that are going on in your classroom.

Katie: 17:05

And, and on that note, make sure your admin are aware if you are moving towards un grading practices, because this is not something that you just let them find out on their own. Admin can only have your back if they know what you're doing and you have these conversations with them to justify it to make sure that you know we're doing it properly. Because they are experts as well, and they can give us advice from the parent perspective, from the actual grading perspective to make sure it lines up with, uh, what we need to be doing as teachers. And so think of them as part of your grading team or your course teams and make sure that they are in

Rachel: 17:42

the loop as well. And that's why I brought up administrators. So I'm really glad you brought up that point, Katie, because yes, having those conversations, start them early, have them frequently, You know, make sure that they're in the loop. Yeah. They need to be. Yeah. In, in terms of the planning that we've done as as a team, you know, those conversations started with my admin probably like last January, and I've been just kind of like trying to keep them in the loop of how things have been developing and how they've been going. Now, I would say when you go and have those conversations with your admin, Make sure that your ideas around what you're planning for un grading are really crystal clear before you go have those conversations.'cause there will be a lot of questions.

Katie: 18:31

Yeah. Yeah. Like you really need to make sure you have it planned out well. Um, and that it's something that is tangible that they can see and understand and see how the progress will be marked and, and, How students can have those opportunities to improve. And then also, you know, still come up with that grade at the end of a

Rachel: 18:49

course. And don't be afraid to ask for permission to do something that's not typical, like not traditional. So, You know, I haven't had this conversation yet with my admin, so if they're listening, maybe they're gonna hear it on the podcast first. They know it's coming, so it's okay. Um, but, you know, I kind of wanna ask for permission because we're doing a mastery based approach. Like, I wanna put things in either differently into our mark reporting system, or I kind of don't wanna use our mark reporting system at all in I, in an ideal world, now I have plans. In my head in terms of what I can use and how I can set it up in a variety of different ways, depending on how far I can push that boundary. But knowing that and knowing that I have a few plans in place can help me sort of figure out where. Where that boundary is for us and for our team, but I've had to plan that out so much in my head first before I go and have those conversations. So I'm making sure I'm arming myself with all the information and all of the documents to say, look like, here's where we're hitting all the expectations and the curriculum. Here's where we're. Hitting those categories in terms of grading that is traditional for Ontario grades. So just like being really well armed with that information before you go into those conversations is just so, so crucial. Yeah.

Katie: 20:23

And it's funny because I have a huge changeover in admin.

Rachel: 20:28

I know, but you are getting amazing admin, so you, you're, you'll be fine.

Katie: 20:32

We are, but I haven't had the conversation yet. I haven't been able to actually connect and say, this is what we're doing and I'm about to go away, and so I have to figure out the timing and, and whatnot to make sure I can make, I want everybody on the same page. I don't wanna surprise anybody. I don't want any sort of like, what the heck is happening here, because mastery-based E s L is, uh, very, very different. And, and we are changing it drastically and we've been working hard on it all year to kind of get to this point. But yeah, no have the conversations as I tell myself that.

Rachel: 21:13

And so as you were kind of talking there, I think that's segues nice into no surprises. In terms of your parents as

Katie: 21:21

well? Yes, and I, and I think parents are, are great allies to have and we need to see them as allies. I know in high school we often think, you know, they're teenagers, whatever, like. We can make this work. They should be responsible for their, for their understanding of the course, et cetera. But parents are great allies and if you can clearly explain and, and this is what it comes down to, you need it to be very transparent. You need to make sure you're explaining to parents, this is how your student is going to get a grade this semester. We are not going to mark every single thing. We're looking at feedback cycles, et cetera, actual qualitative feedback that will allow them to further develop their skills. And then from there, this is how I'm going to come up with that number, or letter grade at the end, or the middle of the semester, et cetera. But it really is transparency and you need to make sure you lay out, you know, almost justify it. It's almost like you're doing a pitch. It's a sales pitch.

Rachel: 22:25

It is a sales pitch, and it's something that I think you send out in the first week or two of school, maybe not the first week, maybe like the second week, just to let the dust settle as we're kind of getting back into things. But even, you know, secondary, sending out a newsletter to your parents. Of your students explaining your assessment approaches and how things are going to work for that semester is gonna go a long, long way. And I think once you kind of explain it to parents, especially like both Katie and I are doing a mastery-based approach to our UN grading, and I think once that's sort of explained to parents, like, Hey, you're going to know. What your student knows and where they need to improve, like exactly what they need to improve versus, you know, they got an 86 on a test and so they know, you know, they don't know 14% of it, but I couldn't tell you what that 14% is. They just need to study harder. Like parents don't wanna hear that, right? No. So I feel like once they really understand, oh, like they could focus on this topic, like this is where their learning is lacking. And where, where they need to strengthen their skills, that you will get that buy-in. And it's also

Katie: 23:44

a good conversation starter with parents because then you know, as you're giving feedback, Parents may then have some questions for you, or like, how can they support their student at home, um, et cetera. So it could actually start a pretty strong parent-teacher relationship, which, which to me is actually a great benefit. Like, it, it's, it's really nice to have parents who are on board and willing to have these difficult conversations about, you know, how, how they can support their kiddo to get, to get better and to improve and, and to see that progress. I

Rachel: 24:16

think another strategy as you're kind of thinking about all of this on grading stuff is. Every time you get questions about what you're doing and about your approach is create an F a Q document. So collect those questions and type out answers. Like maybe even do it as a team in a Google Doc that you're collaborating on and just populating it with those questions in answers as you're kind of going through, because then you could use that document to share with. Colleagues, you can use it to share with parents, you can use it to share with admin. Like there are so many ways that that could be used. And as I say this, I'm like, I need to create an f a Q document. I do not have one, but I, I'm thinking like, wow, what a great resource that would be as we start this journey. Yeah. And.

Katie: 25:07

Usually schools have a website. I'm actually debating putting up like my newsletter slash my FAQs right on our department website. That way, you know, it's something that they can navigate to and check as I update in real time. And then it's kind of like I, I want everything to be very transparent. Like I don't

Rachel: 25:25

want any surprises. I agree. So putting them up on your website's. Good. Also, making sure they're posted in your learning management system for students to easily access.'cause a lot of parents do take a look at their students' learning management system as well, like as many places. I feel like that you can be transparent and include any information that you can. You know, maybe even creating a screencast to go along with it, explaining what you're doing and why you're doing it.

Katie: 25:55

And so I think the last kind of group of stakeholders that's important to consider our students probably the most important. How do we get students to buy into a system? Of

Rachel: 26:08

UN grading. That's, that's a probably, I would say this is the group that is like the toughest, because you can explain benefits of un grading to, to your colleagues, to your admin, to your parents, and they'll get it. But students have. Almost being conditioned into this mindset of what school is and what school should be and that they, you know, they produce work, they get points. You know, it's that system of exchange that happens in a classroom. And so when you change that, that's a big mindset shift for them.

Katie: 26:44

Yes. And if you're one of the only classes changing that, it also becomes tough because where's the buy-in to do the work? That's probably one of the things I've realized the most. So I've been doing more feedback cycles before I actually do any sort of grading, and my students are always like, well, are you gonna mark it? Is this for Marx? Is this for Marx? I was like, no, it's for feedback so that when I do mark it, you know you're gonna do really well on it. And, and they like that, but they don't like having to actually do the work initially. It's hard for them to get that buy-in. So I

Rachel: 27:17

guess some, some of the things you could do is. You know, thinking about the language that you use with your students, instead of saying, submit this assignment, you can invite them to share it with you. Uh, instead of talking about grades, you talk about the learning, and you always bring it back to the learning. Well, I. They might say, well, what grade did I get on this? And you're like, no, what did you learn from this? And, and try and switch those conversations. You know, the more you focus on that feedback and that learning piece, the less the focus will be on the grades and it will be a learning curve, and that's okay. It will take a bit of time and a bit of getting used to. You will get pushback at the beginning. I am certain of that. Expect it, you know, for at least the first month and then things will, should calm down after that point.

Katie: 28:11

And it's almost worth having them when they ask, you know, what would I get on this? Say, what do you think you would get on this? Let's look at the success criteria. Let's look at what you did and did not do. And why don't you try to put a number grade, like if you were the teacher, what would you give yourself? That usually scares them, but, but, but they do actually think about it. And I think that that's part of the process, right? Like, I think an important. Part of grading is that students understand where that grade comes from. And so that could actually be a very powerful practice where you're having them, you know, if they really wanna know a number grade. If I were to mark then and there like, let, let's do this together. Like I want you to look at all of the CRI criteria. What did you do? What didn't you do? What are you on your way to being able to accomplish, but you're just not there yet? And, and how would you put a number to that? How would you mark it? Because it's a really good conversation. It really

Rachel: 29:08

is. And I think opening up the conversation around grading in general is also a great place to get buy-in from your students. So, you know, don't be afraid to ask them. Can you think of a time where you got a grade that you thought was unfair or that, you know, if you got a bad grade, how did it make you feel? And, you know, kind of dive into some of those. I guess like the mindset pieces around grading and around how it impacts how we learn. It's gonna go a long way in terms of getting buy-in for your students'cause it's gonna build that understanding and the why of why we shouldn't focus on the grade and why we should focus on the learning and the feedback. And

Katie: 29:49

it's, and it's almost worth, like, what I've been having my students do this year is to keep all of their attempts. And all of kind of these, these different, um, tasks that we're doing before I ever mark anything. And then I have them look at their first attempt versus the one that they end up submitting for Marks. And then it's actually kind of a neat way to get them to, to see where they started from and where they are now. Because often that can be kind of eye-opening for them to say, oh yeah, you're right. Like, look, I started off and it was really not that great. Like, look how weak my writing is. And then look what I did here. Like I can actually see the different parts of my writing. And having those examples and like the actual things that they've done is awesome. So portfolios are great. Like have them do that. Why not?

Rachel: 30:39

I guess the one sort of last place that you could start building some buy-in from students is focusing on building in a lot of reflection into. Your day-to-day and your courses. So reflecting on the learning process and uh, you know, how you're doing and how you're planning for things, like just really that sort of piece is, is also gonna build awareness around. How, you know, how you end up doing things relates to grades and, and so yeah, building in those reflection opportunities for students is gonna go a long way as well.

Katie: 31:19

Yeah, and, and I think that's where some of the buy-in from students comes too, right? So if they can actually think about their learning and how they're developing, I think it helps them understand and know kind of how. UN grading is going and, and how their skills

Rachel: 31:35

are developing. And then I guess just kind of be mindful. Like you, you might have students who not getting grades is gonna feel very anxious for them and stress them out quite a bit. I, we've talked about this a little bit before, right? We've experienced courses where we haven't gotten grades and it can be in anxiety inducing in terms of not knowing where you stand. So, Just making sure that your door is open, that you're having those conversations consistently with students, especially when they are anxious around grades, is gonna really like it. It's gonna help support them as they start to try and shift their mindsets as well. So, yes. So

Katie: 32:19

the biggest kind of takeaway here is. Get everybody on board, be on the same page. Communication is key. Um, and just make sure that everybody knows where they're moving towards and, and what your goals are, because I think that's the only way to kind of move with un grading and, and to try new things. But give yourself a break. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Just do small little steps.

Rachel: 32:44

Yeah, small changes will eventually lead to big impacts. So on that note, uh, we are going to wrap up our conversation here for today. Uh, you can access our show notes@als.com slash nine seven for this episode. That's edu g a lss.com/nine

Katie: 33:04

seven. And if you like what you heard today, then please feel free to share it with a friend or a colleague. And don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so that you don't miss out on any future content. And

Rachel: 33:15

as always, we invite you to leave us. Feedback. So if you'd like to go onto our Flipgrid, I still wanna call it Flipgrid, uh, at edu gals.com/flipgrid, you can leave us a video message there, or you can go on our website@edugals.com and leave us a written reply.

Katie: 33:33

Thanks for listening. See you next week. Thanks for listening to this episode of our edu Gals podcast. Show notes for this episode are available@edugals.com. That's e d. G A l s.com. We'd also love to hear your feedback, so leave us a message on our website,

Rachel: 34:00

and if you enjoyed what you heard, please subscribe and consider leaving a rating or review on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, keep being awesome and try something new.